333: A Different Era of Judging

0:00 Opening: news and current events

0:00Welcome to Beyond the Ring, a podcast that covers all things in the stock show industry from the informative to the insane, starring Ryan Rash, It's Always Tough Being a Diamond in a Rhinestone World, and Dale Hummel. They can mimic the look. They'll never own the line. Now on with the show. Welcome to Beyond the Ring. This is Dale Hummel along with co-star Ryan Rash. Hello, hello, hello.

0:40My current events, Ryan. State fairs, state fairs, state fairs. State fairs are over. Next. No, they are not over. Your state fair is not even over. Dolly Parton died, Dale. That is the most current event. That was like three weeks ago. No, it was actually the day we recorded last week. We just barely missed it. The most beloved person in all of America. Are you going to tear up? No, I'm not going to. What was the Hereford Steers name? Shut up. What was it? Benny? Screw you, Adam. Screw you, Dale. No, I had a tough time with this.

1:21I'm not going to lie. I know you're a fan. I do not get wrapped up into celebrity and all this other stuff. There are very few of them that I even whatever, but I was a big, big Dolly fan. And not just because of her music, but the way she lived her life. She was just a good person. I mean, her philanthropy, I mean, millions and millions of books to children, everything that she did made a difference. And one of the coolest things about her was she was out there and outlandish and didn't care what anybody thought, dressed exactly how she wanted to, all those things, but would never enter a political discussion.

2:11And if I heard her say it once I heard her say it a thousand times When they would try to trap her on a political question All this other stuff She says, I am an entertainer Not a politician People pay to listen to me sing Make them laugh They do not pay to hear my political beliefs And I have them But they are mine And I'm not going there What were they? Are you aware? No, she did not. Never. Never. Like, I honestly could not tell you if she was a Republican or a Democrat. Let's give her the benefit of the doubt. Dale, I'm telling you, there's no history where she would ever take a stance on any political issue.

2:57Now, she was, I will say this, she was LGBT friendly, but, I mean, that's most entertainers, and I don't think, I mean, but I'm not saying she's a Democrat. But I just thought that it was absolutely delightful that there was actually one person in show business that knew that they got paid to entertain people and didn't feel like they needed to force whatever your political beliefs were on anyone. And I will miss her and just the way she did life. But that just heartbroken over that. No, and you've mentioned her several times to me. Yeah. That she's pretty special.

3:39In your mind. Yeah. I mean, top, top. And I'm not saying that I was that attached or anything, but you can't pick many things apart on her negative. She lived a good life as a good person. So that was tough, and lots of people reached out to me about it. But into the political side, we'll move from Dolly. The Democrats backed down off of the shutdown and handed Trump and the Republicans a win right before midterms today. So there's that. We like that. Yeah. It seems like there's some infighting amongst the Democrats between the communist and extreme liberals.

4:22And we're back at Iran. So we're bombing. That's a mess. And then the other thing is Trump And I don't have any specifics Other than what I saw Trump says that he Made the biggest oil deal In the history of the world with Venezuela Yes I saw that as well So I think it sounded to me like he just took it Well maybe he did And I'm okay with that Anything that helped get Gas prices down before the midterms That are coming up I'm all for The taking the tariffs off ground beef has not been real popular.

5:04Nope. I'm going to call it as it is, and I've seen others. I think it's bring prices down, going into midterms. That is it. It's that simple. Do you see any other reason? No, that's what I said last week. I mean, again, I'm not a fan of it. It goes against America First policy. That is his biggest thing. But I do know that that is my gut feeling. that this is all about the midterms. Yeah. Agreed completely. Well, Ryan, I'm very fortunate today to be in the new Show Circuit Online office in Fowler, Indiana. So there's some background noise. We have some construction going on, creating a very functional workspace here in Fowler.

5:46Love this little town. I've been over here a couple times here the past two weeks, and this is good. I just went through and checked out the fall sales, probably the largest list of fall sales in history. So that's a positive. And I think encourage anyone out there to go to sconlinesales.com. Check out the offerings coming up for auction here in the next couple of weeks. They're loaded. They're stacked. It's bringing as many buyers and sellers together as we've ever seen in history. Show Circuit Online is obviously one of our sponsors. We greatly appreciate it. Tried, tested, true, and trusted. Everything you can wrap your head around, This platform's bringing those people together, and it's good.

6:32I enjoy being over here. And your wife enjoys redecorating. I would call it more ripping out walls. Well, whatever you want to call it. She is a big fan of getting to redo places, so she's in heaven right now. Yes. She wraps her head around a project of construction nature, Bob the Builder. That's what we refer to her as, Bob the Builder. No, it's all good. Do you have any other current events? Like I said, that's all I've got. I know that – oh, yes, wait. The Supreme Court also let Trump continue to redo his ballroom, so I'm glad about that.

7:13They did. I did not hear that. Yes, I'm very happy. It was a 5-4 decision, but they're going to let Trump build his ballroom. Right along the political lines? Yes, yes. But there is that. The Supreme Court Yeah I know They got something right I still don't know how Redoing a ballroom gets to the Supreme Court But here we are But that did happen And like I said I would have thought With Trump Making this oil deal with Venezuela That maybe Iran would not Just go crazy and decide that they're gonna Like try to bomb us again, but yeah, no, not as much.

7:56So I agree. Well, I would like September and midterms are here. That's all I know. So they are here and I'm I'm not catching as much of the news, so it's not hitting me as hard, but maybe they just aren't still aren't talking about the polls and so. No, there's not much. No, I mean, I'm assuming again, we're two months away and so it's going to have to whatever, but there is not much polling data out right now. That's interesting. I wish I understood why and wish I understood that just a little bit better. Same. I would like to welcome back our longtime sponsor, Merck Animal Health. Anyone in our industry knows that effectively managing your time and hitting breeding windows are crucial to success.

8:41SenseHub, cow-calf from Merck Animal Health gives you the ability to improve both. With 24-7 monitoring, SenseHub cow-calf helps save time spent on visual checks and delivers data you can use to detect heats, and make informed decisions on reproduction timing for AI and embryo transfer. This changes everything. Learn more at sensehub-cowcalf.com. Ryan, the main topic today. You forgot your waterboy duties. No, they're going to question and answer today. Oh, sorry. Now, I may forget them when we get there, so we'll need a reminder. Okay, I'll make sure. Do you have a title for us today? A Different Era of Judging.

9:00 A different era of judging

9:22You're going to have to explain this Yes, well, anyway Just a lot of people have contacted me in the last, I don't know, month, whatever That it's just a very different era of judging I'm trying to be as politically correct as I can You're still out judging I occasionally go judge Lots of people are still judging that judge last year and the year before. Yeah, but no, it's different. And the reason of this topic is, first off, they're going to go into several different ways.

10:03But the way judges are selected is much different. The way judges are vetted or if they're vetted at all is much different. And probably the biggest difference right now is judges are advertising themselves and marketing themselves to get to judge shows. And that is something that is very new. And it's hitting people all kinds of different ways. That's the best way I can put it. I am not on social media much. So I want to be very clear with that. But I did have a reel come across last night, ironically, on just this.

10:44And it hit me a little unusual. And we'll talk about it more later. I want to go back way back in history. When I first started coaching and teaching at the University of Illinois, this would have been a very long time ago, early 1990s, we'll say, roughly. At that time, there were some people that would get the address of all the county extension offices in a given state and they would formally type up a letter and snail mail that to them saying they're available to judge whatever species A, B, C, and D or whatever it was. And that some people that did that did get some traction and it went out, I believe, state fairs as well.

11:25So there was your old school push a long time ago, but that was for just a few years. And then I didn't hear anything about that at all again. And now we're circled around to social media. Right. And, you know, going back, and I talked about this on one other podcast. I don't remember which one a little bit. But in terms of judging, there was a tried and true method for years and years and years. And most people judged in either 4-H or FFA in high school. And then they went to the collegiate level, whether it was junior college or senior college or both mainly. And they did that.

12:06And then when you got out of there, then you would get your judging team coach or someone close to you to get you a county fair job or two or a jet pot show. And then people would watch you and be like, yo, XYZ is pretty good at this. Maybe we should let them do something else. And there was an actual vetting process. Like you just didn't show up and you had to kind of earn your stripes and stuff like this and go through the ranks before you got to anything of any substance. That's not kind of the case anymore. And I would agree. That was definitely the, when you went out and did the, I can remember the first few shows I did. I'm sure you can remember yours, Ryan. Even though they were not significantly large shows, I was very nervous about going to do them because of that exact process.

13:01If somebody happened to be there, I wanted to make sure that I'm going to give 100% irregardless of whether somebody's there watching for the next show or not. But that was in the back of your mind that, wow, you better get this right. You better do everything you can if you want to go do another one. You never knew who was going to be in the crowd or who wasn't or who would talk to somebody. Even if they weren't there, if somebody was there that was friends with somebody that picked judges for a big show or whatever, but there was a process to it, and I don't think that's in place anymore. And I have talked about, and I will say it again, why I think the judging team, especially the collegiate judging team thing, did more things for me than probably any other thing that I have ever done.

13:30 What judging teams teach, and don't

13:55I do not think that it specifically prepares someone to judge a show by themselves. But you used to, you couldn't judge a show if you weren't on a judging team. I'm not saying you had to be successful, but you had to be on a judging team. That was a pretty big factor. Right. Real big. Now more and more, that is not the case either. And so it's just very, very different. And I don't want to – I apologize for NARP. I want to defend the judging team, and I agree. It does not prepare you to specifically go judge a show. It does not.

14:35No, but those that have competed, whether they're at the junior college level or senior college level, they've at least gone through the process of looking at a lot of animals. Yes. I mean, they just don't step out there and have never. I think there are things of value that build you up and give you some foundation that may help. It's not training you to go judge that show. But I'll take somebody that's been through that process versus somebody that has never partaken in that process every day. And I think you learn a lot about animal selection and priorities and all this other stuff. My thing is, and I will stand by this, I think I would like for every judge that I would much rather have them been on a judging team of some sort than not.

15:30But this idea that has been implanted in everyone's mind for centuries that when you get off the judging team, you are somehow magically transported to standing out there in a class of 14 by yourself on a microphone because you can place four on hand in a card. Yeah, I still call bullshit on that. I agree. Now, that is not a guarantee. Now, are there some that come off there that can do it? Absolutely. Right. But just as quickly, you're going to send somebody out there that is going to have problems. And there are some of the best judges I have ever seen that may not have got to mark cards on a judging team.

16:14It participated, but actually didn't get to mark. And there's some of the best in the ring. And so it's fine, but I just rail against that theory that because you're on a judging team, now you're magically prepared to go out there and stand by yourself and do it. But no. Does it help? Is it important? Is it vital? Absolutely. The biggest mistake I ever let my mother make was not sending me to a JUCO. I regret it to this day. So, yes, I think the judging team is important. But this is a whole new ballgame. And I am going to put up one important point because I think the way we do this now from five years ago is different.

17:01But it is drastically different from ten years ago. And the reason I bring up five years is we're in 2026. Rona was 2020 COVID. I can say without any question that I am very confident in the fact that I judged more shows during the COVID Rona thing than anybody else. And because if they called, I went. I didn't care what they were going to pay me, whatever. I knew that it was vital to get these kids back in the show ring, and so I just went.

17:46There was a bunch of people during that time because most of these shows were new because the one shows that had been there forever, they weren't allowed to do it or whatever. These were new shows. They didn't know how many entries they were going to get. They didn't know if anybody was going to show up, all this other stuff. so you didn't get a lot of money or sometimes any money and traveling during that time was just an absolute disaster it didn't matter going to an airport you didn't know if there were so many things a hotel you didn't know if your room was going to get clean you didn't know if anything was going to be open to eat it was it was just all a mess my point is during all that there was a bunch of people that might have got called that just said, you know what? I'm not fighting this right now. Not that they were scared they were going to get sick. They just didn't want to deal with the bullshit. And so I know lots of them. I talked to lots of them. So that opened up a whole new window for a whole bunch of people that may have never got to judge before because when they

19:00either volunteered or they said yes. And that is a huge difference right now and five years ago. That's one of the biggest contributing factors. And you may tell me I'm wrong, but I know I'm right on that. No, I can't disagree with any of that. I agree. It is different. I don't know. I think we still have some of the same people in charge of hiring judges that we did five years ago, even some 10 and maybe 15 years ago, but the dynamic is changing and I'm not sure that there seems to be, and Ryan, you could attest to this, I get a call or a text every few days about judging a show somewhere in the country, especially at the county fair level, those people hiring the judges are still having a hard time finding people. And if somebody puts themselves out there on social media, they're going to grab a hold if it's convenient. And I think still at the state fair level or the national or the major show level, the vetting process is still in place.

19:30 Judges marketing themselves online

20:06These go through committees and stuff like that, and that's who gets them. I don't think those people are looking at reels on social media to decide who does any of that. I'm talking about at the county fair and the jackpot level, this is a whole new ballgame. Agreed completely. Those people that do put themselves out there do. I mean, there are Facebook groups, and I refuse to be a member of any Facebook group. I'd probably go nuts and answer every post because I see so much weird and dumb stuff, screenshots that people send me from these different deals. but there are Facebook groups where people will put up their resume and their number and all that.

20:47And I don't want anybody to think that I think there's anything wrong with any of this. Everyone has to choose how to market themselves to do whatever. You want to put yourself out there like that, get with it. Vote for it. I'm not against you. I'm just saying this, until recently, would have never helped, caught traction, or got you a job. But now it does. And that's why I think we need to bring this up because this is what is happening, whether it is putting it on your own social media, going into these Facebook groups, putting up your resume or saying, you know, your judging experience, all this other stuff.

21:28People now are looking at these and this is getting people judging jobs. And again, I'm not for it. I'm not against it. Okay. I really am not. but there have been more people talk to me about this subject in the last three months than probably anything else that's going on in the livestock industry right now. I would agree with that and I'm actually in favor of you promoting yourself out there and it gives county fair superintendents or committees some more names to look at that are possibilities. What I would like and I'm sure they're doing it. I'm not seeing near as many of these as Ryan or others see. I would just ask that, yeah, put it out there and give your bio. What is your background? What is your experience?

22:18Nothing wrong with that whatsoever. And I'm not even saying you need to be, have been on a judging team or you need to be in a breeding operation or you need to have this training or that training, but throw it out there just so we know what experience you have. I do think we need some experience and it can come from many different directions right um and i understand that but yeah we don't we don't need to go judge shows when we've never raised anything shown anything have never been on a judging team haven't just haven't been around our industry and don't understand it no we do not need that right and that's why like i said facebook groups are putting up there and whatever. If you have whatever your background is, make that obvious.

23:06Make that out there so people do know. Because I think the thing that gets people more than anything is there are people who have found this industry somehow or another and with very little or zero experience in any form or fashion are now out there judging shows. yeah that that's not ideal and so uh like i said if you're gonna advertise promote yourself market yourself great but i also i agree with dale i think that probably the your best marketing tool is actually how your experience in this industry and you know make that known and make that public But I do think that there is just huge differences in how judges are selected now.

24:00 Responding to show requests

24:01Because, like Dale says, at the county fair level, jackpot level, there's more jackpot shows now than ever. And so they will find somebody who is eager on social media, wants to do it. And, again, this is working for those people that are doing it. And they're getting jobs. County fair, I can't tell you, and I judge as many county fairs as anybody, but I can't tell you how many of them tell me, you know, thank you for responding. Even the ones that I can't judge, I say that I'm already booked. At least you responded.

24:42Last year, we went through 15 people, and nobody called us back. Nobody responded. And I think that's real for a lot of counties. I hear it time and time and time and time again. And so when you go through 15 people, you're, at the end of that, you're willing to take anybody. And then the other thing is, and I do want to put this out there, because I try desperately to respond to every request I get. And if you Facebook message me or snap me or text me, 99.9%, you're going to get a response. If you call and leave a voicemail, go with God.

25:25Because you just don't, with me at least, it's not guaranteed that you're going to get one. I try desperately. You do not listen to your voicemail. No, but I read the text. It changes it to text for you and whatever. But no, I don't listen to voicemails ever. And I don't pick up the phone. I'm not going to lie. But that's why if you go one of the other routes, 99.9% sure you're going to get response. That route, don't so much. But my point in this is I have told these people that have contacted me about this topic. I was like, okay, so the last show that somebody called, texted you, did you respond?

26:09Some of them say yes. Some of them say no. My point is if a show calls you, I don't care what show it is. and you don't respond, they're never going to call that person back. Now, if you say, you know what, I can't do it, I appreciate it, they might the next year. But if you just flat-ass don't respond, you're never getting that show to call you back. So, y'all are upset that this is a new era and people that are advertising and marketing themselves on social media are getting judging jobs, but yet you ain't returning people's messages or nothing yourself.

26:51And that's little catch 22 there. Okay. And I really believe there's a large percentage of the county fairs. They're, they're desperate and they have, that is a true fear for them to find somebody that's willing to come and judge. Well, and, and here's the other thing. If you are marketing yourself through social media or advertising these Facebook groups or anything like this, you really want to do this. You're motivated to do it. So anybody that contacts you, you're at least going to respond to them. Yes. And so that works in their favor. And that's just part of it. And I don't know how to sum that up any differently than that.

27:36But that is a big thing. Because, again, if you don't respond, and I hear that more, I hear it all the time. every show that I can't make, and I respond and tell them why. And I give specific reasons. I don't just say, hey, I can't make it. I just say, you know, I am booked here. Thank you for asking me, whatever. And every single time, 95% will at least you responded. Thank you so much for that. So we know that we can move on and look for somebody else because we've contacted five other people and nobody responded. and that's a thing and it's it's not ideal but that's the thing and i i agree with that and i'm i will respond my problem is i'll usually respond saying i need to check my calendar because i'm outside or i'm doing something else and i will be the first to admit i will sometimes get distracted forget for a couple days to get back to it believe that dale yeah yeah they'll text me again and i will immediately go look and decide. I can assure you the number of calls that both of my daughters, Tara and Katie, are getting to judge shows continues to increase every year. And I think

28:54people are just really searching hard to bring in qualified individuals to judge rather than, I mean, all those, most of the county fair people hiring judges, they want to get the best they can, but when they don't get responses back they have to to take whatever they can get i i've told both katie and tara the same thing you're you're preaching there ryan and there is something for some of these younger kids just coming through college judging teams or that that age group that are out there judging some of these shows right now if katie's got shows to judge that she's going to fly to, to rent a car, and even in some states to book a hotel, you can't do that until 21, 26 on the car rental, and in some cases, 25.

29:41That's why I'm still 25, because I didn't turn, I wanted to be 25, because it greatly affects the rental price. Yeah. After that, I never got any older. I stayed 25 for the rest of my life. And you're right, you can rent under 25, but it's expensive, and you've got to find About triple. Yeah. And there are some states you have to be 21 to check into a hotel. Yep. So there are those situations. I, and Tara's older over, obviously over 21 now that, but in the beginning I would encourage them and say, yeah, I'd be happy to come judge your show. You're going to need to pick me up if possible and book the hotel. And that's just something that for some of those out there that even if they're going to, going to drive a distance where they've got to stay overnight, We need to be conscious of that.

30:29Yeah. And so, you know, but I agree with you that county fairs and jackpots, because that's what we're basically talking about here. Because I do think at state fair level up, there is still a very serious vetting process involved. I also have talked to these people that have brought this to my attention. and told them and they don't like hearing it. You texted with them. You did not talk to them. I had an hour and a half conversation about this last week with the guy. So I'm just going to tell you. But in my communication, whatever it is, and the people that have contacted me about this, they don't like hearing this.

30:45 What exhibitors now expect from judges

31:19I think that the general livestock show public wants different things out of judges than ever before. And again, I'm not going to say I agree with it or I disagree with it, but I think that they want different things out of judges. I think now it is more important for those judges to be kind to kids, interact with kids, all of these things, I think that is more of a priority than accuracy or sorting stock well.

32:05Not that they don't want everybody to have everything, but I really do think that the priorities have shifted a great deal in terms of what a lot of people at stock shows want out of a sorter. I think right now, Ryan, if you came in to a county level or jackpot show and you were professional in your dealings with them, you're dressed the part, neat, tidy, can speak on a certain level on the microphone that comes across positive, spend some time with the kids, you're going to be pretty popular even if those animals aren't lined up exactly how some may think they need to be.

32:46And see, when I say that in my community, this drives these people up a wall. And I get it. And I understand it. It's the truth. Yes, but it is the truth. And so when I was talking to this one guy last week, I said, look, the reason you and I go to shows is way different than the reason other people go to shows. And I'm not talking about the Texas majors or the nationals or our state fair. We're going to go to those because we're going to go to those. But I'm talking about if we go to a jackpot show, the reason you and I are going is way different than the masses.

33:26If you and I are going to a jackpot show, we are going because of who's judging. And we want that person's specific opinion on our stock. because if we win, then it validates that we think ours are good because we know that guy or gal's sharp, and that's why we wanted them to put their eyes on him. If we don't win, I want to hear what they have to say, and then maybe we need to go home and work on that individual. That's why we go to jackpot shows. We pick because of who's judging. That is not how the majority does it, and they just have a very hard time understanding that concept.

34:09But I think there's a lot to that. I'm just being flat honest. I would agree completely. And we want those judges to be able to do it all, but they're not all going to do that. In an ideal world, are they sharp? Are they accurate? Are they good with kids? Are they wonderful? Yes, but that's just not reality. And for that average showman at the county fair, this is not going to be popular, but it's the truth. I'm talking about the average showman that shows their county fair, maybe one other jackpot, but not just locally. And they're going to be in the middle of the class. It's a pretty good day for them.

34:50That interaction. That's not the experience. That is it. And that experience they get with that judge in the ring is going to dictate their well-being. Because not everybody's going to go to the show to win. And again, the people that are talking to me about this, they don't understand that concept, and I get that. But there are people that do go to shows that know that they're not going to win. But they judge the success of that show on how that kid feels when they come out of the ring. Agreed 100%. They have a good time. Was it a positive experience, all that? And I get it.

35:32I understand. I not only get it, Ryan, I want to shout out to those, even at the state fair and national level, people that are judging those shows. Yes, you need to sort them, and you need to describe them accurately. All of those things need to happen. But guess what, people? You still need to give those kids a positive experience. Don't just be stone cold out there. Sort through them as quick as you can and shove the kids out the door without interacting with them, without trying to make it as positive as you possibly can. I want it all at that level. Oh, I think at the national level, you deserve it all. I would like it for it to be at every single level.

36:10You deserve it all. Shockingly, you will find people judging national shows that do not give that positive, friendly experience to the kids. No, but they're... And they can. It's not that they can't. They choose not. Anybody can. Yes. I mean, anybody can give that experience. But, again, this is kind of this topic. Not only do people expect different things out of judges right now, there's a whole lot of differences in how judges think they should act, what their role is, how they should go about it, and all this other stuff.

36:52And to each his own, but some of the absolutely most brilliant people I know, maybe not the most kid-friendly. And they're not going to change. No, I agree. They're not. I really do think that that is probably what causes more debate in all of this is because obviously not everybody is going to, there are people out there that can do it all. maybe not everybody can, but what people want and what people expect out of shows from the different levels is way different now than it's ever been.

37:48A stock show judge is not just a stock show judge anymore. And that's just plain and simple. And if you can't get that through your head, I can't help you. and not just for even it's not just the kids in the ring it's even the audience no that's what i'm saying yes all of it yeah it is it is not just about going out there and sorting the animals anymore and if that's what you think it is and that's the only thing that you think it is then you're an ostrich and you've got your head buried in the sand because that's not just what it's about anymore. And it is more obvious to me now than ever at every show I go to, from whether it's me judging or me on the side of the rail or whatever, it is not just about sorting the animals and talking them anymore. And some people can absolutely, when I say that to them. They want to take me and shake me and go, Ryan, you cannot say that out loud. But it's the truth. It is not just about that anymore. And the sooner everybody wakes up and understands that, the better off we're going to be. Because I do, I will say, I get the concern that these people

39:10are coming to me about. And that we've got people with very little experience that are getting out they're judging shows and all this other stuff. I understand it. Those people are catering more to what we're talking about, the child's experience in the ring, and that's why they're getting judging jobs. And they are putting themselves out there, making themselves available. Available. So for those of you that want to judge more shows, listen, do all of it right, and you're going to get more. Make yourself available. And I don't want to diminish, Ryan the ability to I'm not diminishing anybody on this not a person just the don't want to diminish that yeah you need to sort them and you need to be accurate but again just like you stated that was the priority years ago it's not anymore it's completely changed I don't want to get away from that part no and I wish we would go back to more of that and I think my thing is and I've said this on this podcast a million times I don't care what kind you pick I don't be consistent and be accurate and I can follow you all day long I don't care what kind

40:21you pick I do not if you can be consistent and accurate and that's what I look for the most in judges I'm not the masses and I think that statement right there is going to hold more true each and every year because we have strayed away from what we call a market animal base a commercial base, a real world base where we're, we're even strayed further away than dog shows because they have a breed standard to adhere to. This, these show animals can go any direction they want. So it's becoming less to me. Do I, do I think that we need to stay within the window of what's popular and trendy and accepted? Absolutely. But just what Ryan said, if you are consistent in the type that you're sorting, you're describing them accurately. I am with you, Ryan, I can go a lot of different directions and that's okay.

40:30 Consistency, accuracy, and choosing shows

41:14And the person could be out there picking the exact opposite of what I like, but if they're consistent and accurate, you know what? The next time I can bring one to them and I can win something. Or choose not to go if you don't have one. I'm not even that. They're consistent and accurate. And they're judging a show that I got to go to. I can go find one and win under them because they were consistent and accurate. And I am perfectly okay with that. But I am not the masses, and that is not the priority anymore. And I can't fix it. I can't change it. I just speak the truth. And when I, again, this topic has come up over and over and over, and they're like, you cannot say that out loud.

41:59I said, what do you want me to do, lie to people? I'm not gonna. Yeah. And I think most of the competitive people showing competitively at the state fair and national level, except that I believe the most of them, except that not all of them, but if they truly watch somebody that's consistent and describes them accurately, especially if they knew that going into the show, they're good with it. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Now, when some of these judges have been a certain way for many years and they changed direction without me knowing it, man, that that's a problem. Well, they change on one show and then the next show they go back to the way that they were for 15 years.

42:39Yeah, man, I get it. It catches me off guard occasionally. Yeah, but I do just the expectations for what a show judge is now. It is not just about placing the stock and talking a set of reasons on a microphone. Nor is it about you went through a formal judging program. And it's not. And again, I'm not trying to tell, say that this is the right direction or the wrong direction. I got feelings on both sides of it. And I literally explained in as good a detail as I could while ago, if I'm going to a jackpot show, I'm going because I want the person judging his opinion on my stock. And that's why I'm going, period. And so I'm way different.

43:27that's why you made the decision to go to that show yes we made the decision to go there because i wanted that person that's going to have the microphone to see my animal and i want to hear what they think that is the only reason we went and but i'm way different the people that are going to these shows weekend after weekend it is more about which shows closest which shows given the coolest awards all this other stuff there they don't may not even know who's the judge i'll never forget dale called me one time and said we're going to a show this week and i said who's the judge and he said i don't know i said i'm going to hurt you right now now it only happened once but i was like you do not go to a show that you didn't that that concept now that that would be my wife and my daughter on occasion that i i don't even know we're going once in a while but yes But I could just, you couldn't, you cannot even, I can't even get in the mindset, even fathom the mindset of going to a show that I did not know who the judge was.

44:34It would not happen. We would not do it. It would not. No. Never in the history. Never. If I have a young showman and it's a local show and I need experience. No, I'm not. I can make an exception there. but there are people that go to shows every weekend and they don't know who the judge is and if you don't know who the judge is then you just want to get your animal some experience you want to get your kids some experience and you want it to be positive if you don't know who the judge is you don't care what kind they pick or how you're going to place or anything like that you were there to get the animal and the kid experience and you want a positive show experience throughout the thing.

45:18And there's nothing wrong with that whatsoever at all. And I get after it. I am glad that y'all do it. I think it is great. I am not that person. But I do know you. I do see you. And I understand you. And that is why I'm telling you the expectations and the priority of a show judge, specifically at a jackpot in a county fair level, are very, very different than they've ever been before. And so is the process in which they're getting selected. And this is not a bad thing. We're just stating the facts.

45:59Right. And, you know, this kind of goes back to the county fair mentality, and it's worked this way for since, you know, 1800 AD, we're not changing anything. Well, things are changing in this particular topic, in this particular subject matter. Things are changing, whether you like it or not. And I can't, everybody's entitled to their opinion. Some people hate it. Some people think it's great. It's fine. It needs to be put out there. It needs to be talked about because it is something that people have come to me over and over and over again about, especially in the, this summer. Uh, and if you are somebody that is out there hungry and marketing yourselves, get with it. If you are somebody that has been one of those people that have called me and be like, I'm never going to do that. And I don't think it's fair that they Didn't you change your ways or something?

47:03But it's not just about marketing or whatever. You know, I get at least two messages a week asking me to post a schedule for I'm judging. I'm never going to do that. That's not me. I would rather talk about anybody other than myself. I'm never going to post a schedule. I am not Metallica. I am not going to post a tour schedule up on social media so people can whatever. I'm not doing that. But will I post about a show that I'm excited to judge? Absolutely, I've done that. Will I post about a show after that I had a great time or had a great experience?

47:45I just posted about the main show a couple of weeks ago. Small 50 head show, one of the most enjoyable shows I've done all year. And so, yes, but I'm not going to do it for every show. Terry Burks is one of the most respected judges that I know. Judges as many shows as anybody. I don't know that he does it for every show, but I see him post pictures of almost every show that I think he judges. And that's great. That's him. That's what he wants to do. Get with it. I think that's wonderful. Every person is different. And that's okay that we're different. and because one person goes about doing things this way and another person goes about doing it, that doesn't make them right or me wrong.

48:27It's just differences. And the system that y'all all thought should stay in place forever, it's not going to stay in place forever. And that's just facts on how a judge got to judge shows, what their background should have been, and how we move up. And how we get to do bigger ones, it's changing and it's evolving. And I understand the concerns. I get them. I still think it's okay and that we're fine because I stand firm in the fact that at a state fair or a national level, there is a very serious vetting process in place for the large majority of those shows that it goes through committees, all this other stuff.

49:16I would actually like more exhibitor input in those decisions. But at these other levels, it's kind of the wild, wild west. No, and we've always, I will always stand behind exhibitor, show family input, the customer, those that are showing. If you want to give somebody a chance to speak up, those are the ones you need to listen to. Right. Agreed completely. This is good. But the other jackpot character is kind of the wild, wild west, and I am not Billy the Kid, and I'm not going to take a six-shooter and start gunning people down because people are upset about how this is getting done or all this other stuff.

49:56But the only thing that I will say is if you're somebody that is hiring a judge, when you see these things on social media and all this other stuff, just don't look at one video or one advertisement and go, you know what? This is the person. This is who I'm going to call. If there's one, there's more. Check out a couple. Or try to get some background information about this person because there are people out there that are not as qualified to do this as others. And so just don't fall in love with one reel or one video or one comment and be like, oh, this is who we're going to hire judge the XYZ County Fair or the ABC jackpot show.

50:15 Advice for those hiring a judge

50:50Don't do that. Do a little more research and background. That would be my suggestion. I like it. Absolutely. This was good, Ryan. Very, very good. Do you have anything else before we move on to question and answer? No, but all those people that contacted me or whatever, I have done my duty. I have done this topic. Whether you liked what I had to say or not, I don't. That is the key. They're not going to like it. I do not know whether you liked it or not, but I told you I was going to say what I was going to say anyway, and y'all insisted on me doing it anyway. I have done my duty, okay? Leave me alone. I love it. Well, it's time for Waterboy duties.

51:29Why aren't animals drinking at shows? Chlorine. Only Show Fresh H2O neutralizes it, and they have three patents to prove it. You can purchase Show Fresh H2O at your local supply trailer or at swampfox.com. Are you ready, Ryan? Yes. We'll start with the shortest one, by far. This one comes from Troy. I enjoy listening to your podcast and have a question. Should county shows have a top three or five market animal and a top three or five breeding animal selected overall? County Fair last week, they did top five in cattle. They only did Grand and Reserve and the others.

51:45 Q&A: top five awards at county fairs

52:10I know lots of counties. Today, I did a top six. Every show is different. I have no problem with top five because more kids get recognition especially at a county fair level I think that's cool I think the biggest probably concern and the biggest whatever is you've got to find sponsors for awards and all this other stuff if you can get awards sponsored or whatever then yeah sure top five is great because again more kids get recognition but that's what I have to say that's it right there I think there's, and I'm sure that there are county fairs that haven't changed what they've done for many years, whether it's a top five or just the grand and reserve in species.

52:54But yeah, I don't see anything against doing a top five. I don't think anything wrong if they want to stay with the traditional grand and reserve, whatever it is. Absolutely nothing against it. But I would say that at the county fair level, sometimes those things are hard to get changed. Very, very challenging. The next one, a little bit longer than our third question that Klifton sent us is even longer yet. This one did not want me to read her name, and I just about said it, but I'm not going to. My daughter is new to the world of show pigs. She loves it. She has found confidence where many other extracurricular activities had left a void for her.

53:15 Q&A: swine feed labels and commercial classes

53:34I'm doing all I can to learn about swine nutrition and how to help her be successful. I know nothing about swine nutrition, although I feel well-versed in human nutrition. I have a dumb question. Please don't read my name aloud if it will go down as the silliest question in history. I really don't believe that. This question is very, I like the question. I picked it out. I'm using it. Why do nutrition labels on hog feed slash supplements not include carbohydrates, overall calories, or serving size? it's a very good question and I can't really give an intelligent answer I would love to which no serving size sometimes they do I think I mean I think most feeds do give a description of how much needs to be fed probably not as much the show feeds but your more commercial feeds but anyway I'm sure Dale has a wonderful answer to this so get with it Well, I can't use this lady's name, but I wish I could because if you understand human nutrition, you understand swine nutrition.

54:44A pig and a human from a nutritional standpoint are as close as we're going to get. You can draw a lot of conclusions or lump those two things together very similarly. And I do. Long ago, back when I was involved heavily in swine show nutrition rations, I took more information from the human side maybe than I did from the research I would get from swine nutrition itself. And we talk about carbohydrates. We're just talking about energy. We're talking about in a swine diet, primarily the corn that we have in there. We talk about overall calories, same thing, more energy, more calories. We can put fat in there for calories.

55:26We can put corn in there for calories. Everything's going to have calories, but at different density levels and so forth. And your serving size, that one's a hard one. You just, each animal is going to be so different. In a commercial world, you can calculate a percent of their body weight. You can assume this particular feed, they're going to, on average, consume so many pounds of feet a day at this particular weight of that animal or growth stage of that animal. So those things are apparent, but I'm going to encourage you, take what you know from human nutrition and apply it to swine nutrition, even though they're not giving you calories, they're not isolating carbohydrates.

56:05Just look at your energy, the feed ingredients that are going to supply the energy, the feed ingredients that are going to supply the protein, not just protein, but available protein. think about it that way, biologically available protein. Soybean meal is a very common protein in our pig feed. Is it as biologically available as, say, an animal-based protein, such as fish meal or raw eggs or blood meal or any of that? No, it's not. But we can draw conclusions and look at it in a similar manner to humans. So I love that question. I'm very, very good with that. So I hope that answers it well enough. The last one, Ryan, I've got to pull it up here.

56:47It's a little long, but I think it's good. Dale and Ryan, I enjoy the show and hearing your thoughts and opinions and relevant updates and concerns in the industry. Recently, we completed at our county fair swine show. Our county still has a big presence of commercial production hogs and has designated classes as such. While my kids don't show in these particular classes, we appreciate those that do. Here's my topic. I understand that the very real difference, I understand the very real difference between the show industry and the commercial side and take nothing away from either. I also realize that most judges in today's world aren't probably used to judging commercial type classes as they're more likely to have been generations removed from that side of the industry.

57:34Our county fair hired a judge this year and he was a good judge in my opinion. However, as much as he critiqued and talked to show animal classes, it seemed as though he could be not bothered to even describe the hogs he was seeing in the other classes. I assume he's talking the commercial classes. Going so far as to just place a class and send them out of the ring as quickly as possible. Do you as judges feel regardless of the familiarity with commercial-based animals, such as incorporating muscle structure, skeleton, soundness, finish, all of those things can still be applied? we need to acknowledge these, do these kids still need their projects acknowledged at the county level?

58:19Many of these kids came back for showmanship and clearly demonstrated they put some time into their projects. My question to restate it is do we, in situations where we have show classes, show animal classes, some commercial type animal classes, do the kids showing on that side still deserve the time of the judge? That's very long. Dear Lord, that was a novel. Klifton sent it. This was Klifton. Is there cliff notes with this? Okay, let me get this straight. I'm not familiar. Basically, they're asking, should the judge have talked the commercial animals? So they must have a separate show for more commercial-based animals, which I've not done one of them.

59:04I've done this in Hogs in the Carolinas before. I mean, I don't know if this is where this person is from, but I've done this in the carry lines. So what they're saying is that the judge did not spend any time with, didn't even talk those hogs, didn't spend time with the kids, just place them out of the ring. Okay. Yes. If you're going to judge the show, whether it's commercial or whether it's whatever, if you're going to place them, then yes, you need to talk the animals. And maybe you're not as comfortable because there's not as much to talk. But this person listed several things that structure, muscle, all those things are still there. And yes, those kids deserve their animals talked.

59:43And so, yeah, they're very simple. Very, very good. Well, Ryan, this this was I liked your topic. This was good. And I wasn't as aware of this going on until you brought it up. Don't send me hate mail, people. And all them people that call me, y'all better not freaking dial me up. I'm not having this again. I did. I'm with you. Well, I want to reach out to Show Circuit Online for not only being a sponsor, but hosting us today or a place for me to record the customer service in this office, the positive energy, the organization level goes beyond my comprehension. The number of sellers that are coming through and buyers that rely on everything working extremely well in this office. I thank those for doing that job and doing that well.

1:00:34And Ryan, I'm sure you have, do we talk about the topics that are coming up or should we wait? You've been trying for years to have this. No, no, this has just been the last couple of months that people have been blowing me up. You brought this up a while ago, at least once. Yes, I did. But like, I mean, in the last three months, like, I mean, I have been just bombarded by people. I think because you said, did you say something on here about it? I don't remember what. I don't think so. If I did, I shouldn't have because dear God. Show dads and show moms. Oh, that topic. I thought you were talking about the one that we were doing today. No, no. Show dads.

1:01:13I've wanted show dads and show moms for years since the beginning. Yes. And I have the perfect show mom. The perfect one. I don't know if she'll agree to do it. Oh, absolutely positively. Yes. That's who I – she's got my vote. No, I have the perfect one. I have not asked this wonderful, glorious, beautiful lady yet. But if she does, I have the perfect one. And if she doesn't, Shrek gets it. No, no. There will be no Shrek coming on the podcast. I think it would be the most entertaining. No, no, no. I'm telling you, if y'all are on my Snapchat, y'all think y'all know that lady? She posted this thing about her birthday. And I just can't believe so many people remembered my birthday, whatever.

1:01:57The not before that woman calls me, she's like, I'm just letting you know, you better tell your people that I'm watching my Facebook to see who wishes me a happy birthday and who doesn't. I'm like, but you know what? I believe she might. And then, but then the next day after her birthday, I just can't believe how many people thought to wish me a happy birthday. She is not the lady y'all think she is. I'm just telling y'all she's not. Be nice. Be nice. Just killing you. Okay. Until next week, be safe. Y'all come back now, you hear? Bye.